Bursa Community
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

3 posters

Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by kppl Thu 02 Aug 2012, 23:18

How did Knight lose $440 million? No money management? Giggle Scary...always keep your trading account cap as much as you need it to - kppl


Well, that didn't take long. Knight Capital announced a pre-tax loss of approximately $440 million on its "technology issue" yesterday, and also said they had traded out of its entire erroneous trade position.

Wow: $440 million? How on earth did it lose that much? It's easy to see. I noted many times yesterday that the volume in the first half hour of trading on the New York Stock Exchange floor was titantic: shortly after 10 a.m. ET, it was about 300 million shares, well more than twice normal volume at that time.

This would indicate that the trading program that came out of Knight resulted in millions of duplicate trades. And it was not going to get much relief in the form of busted (erroneous) trades. The NYSE last night busted trading in only a half-dozen stocks and declared that "no additional symbols will be considered for review."

The NYSE was not being mean-spirited: The definition of what constitutes an "erroneous" trade is very carefully defined, and the NYSE determined that based on that definition only a half-dozen stocks fell into that category.

Once that happened, Knight was faced with tens of millions (at least) of trades that were not clearly "erroneous," but which it is likely liable to cover. At that point, it was just a matter of doing the math.

That's why it was able to come up with a number so quickly.

While losses may be settled for the moment, the longer-term risk is reputational. Knight has a very large retail customer order base which may begin to question its ability to execute.

Patrick O'Shaugnessy at Raymond James downgraded Knight from “strong buy” to “market perform,” saying "these events will limit Knight's earnings multiple expansion due to perceived risks of its market-making business model."

Two questions:

1) What exactly caused this "technology issue"? Knight still hasn't told us. I mentioned several times yesterday that the NYSE had launched a new program Wednesday, the Retail Liquidity Program (RLP), essentially a dark pool inside the NYSE. It is quite possible that Knight had a problem interacting with that program due to some kind of coding issue. Other firms apparently interacted with the RLP without incident.

2) Why did it take so long to shut the damn errant program off? It ran for almost 30 minutes! Traders on the floor noticed a problem within the first couple minutes of the open — I was standing there — but it appears to have kept running to almost 10 a.m. ET.

Huh? Traders seemed baffled that it kept running, but when I asked a couple guys, "Why don't they just call up the source of the trade and tell them to hit the kill switch?" nobody had an answer.

I think the problem was the NYSE DID contact Knight, and it may have taken Knight some time to identify the problem. If this is correct — and I think it is — this will give more ammunition to those who are arguing for more robust oversight over the trading systems ... at the very least better interactivity and more redundancy.

—By CNBC’s Bob Pisani
kppl
kppl
Senior Member
Senior Member

Posts : 2270 Credits : 2611 Reputation : 150
Male Join date : 2012-01-31
Stock Portfolio : AIG, DHI, ORCL, CSCO, BRK.B
Profit & Loss -ve

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by Cals Fri 03 Aug 2012, 08:20

+1
Cals
Cals
Administrator
Administrator

Posts : 25277 Credits : 57721 Reputation : 1766
Male Join date : 2011-09-08
Location : global
Comments : “My plan of trading was sound enough and won oftener that it lost. If I had stuck to it I’️d have been right perhaps as often as seven out of ten times.”
Stock Exposure : Technical Analysis / Fundamental Analysis / Mental Analysis

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by kppl Fri 03 Aug 2012, 09:50

With tech gliches these days, u cant be too safe. Thanks 4d rep!
kppl
kppl
Senior Member
Senior Member

Posts : 2270 Credits : 2611 Reputation : 150
Male Join date : 2012-01-31
Stock Portfolio : AIG, DHI, ORCL, CSCO, BRK.B
Profit & Loss -ve

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by Cals Fri 03 Aug 2012, 09:53

they made a call to their friend Goldman, "wanna buy my company?"
Cals
Cals
Administrator
Administrator

Posts : 25277 Credits : 57721 Reputation : 1766
Male Join date : 2011-09-08
Location : global
Comments : “My plan of trading was sound enough and won oftener that it lost. If I had stuck to it I’️d have been right perhaps as often as seven out of ten times.”
Stock Exposure : Technical Analysis / Fundamental Analysis / Mental Analysis

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by kppl Sat 04 Aug 2012, 02:23

dont also forget this:

RBS suffers £1.5bn loss in first half of 2012

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
kppl
kppl
Senior Member
Senior Member

Posts : 2270 Credits : 2611 Reputation : 150
Male Join date : 2012-01-31
Stock Portfolio : AIG, DHI, ORCL, CSCO, BRK.B
Profit & Loss -ve

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by phoenix777 Sat 04 Aug 2012, 11:40

kppl wrote:With tech gliches these days, u cant be too safe. Thanks 4d rep!

one man's despair is another man's gain....someone i know made 1.5m in 10 secs frm klk tech glitch
Dancing Dancing Dancing Dancing
phoenix777
phoenix777
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 13701 Credits : 16143 Reputation : 1704
Male Join date : 2011-02-03
Location : Malaysia
Job/Hobbies : eating good food
Stock Exposure : 1 year
Stock Portfolio : empty handed

Back to top Go down

The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million? Empty Re: The Knight Fiasco: How Did It Lose $440 Million?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum